Wednesday, February 6, 2008

Trading Tired, Losing Focus

I had a nice bounce today after getting creamed yesterday. Nothing spectacular, but I'll take it. My new thing is just focusing on the profits made today, not thinking about my losses of yesterday.

In fact, to take it one step further, I think I need to get to the point where I don't think about the money I left on the table either, or worry too much about the trades I completely screwed up. And while that may not make me into the best trader, it may make me a happier trader.

Seriously, even I know that is some stupid shit I just wrote.

Fuck being happy. This game is all about getting rich, Sanglucci style.

Okay, back to whatever "normal" is... channeling... channeling...

So I made some good trades in the early morning again. That has been the way things have been for me lately. I make a few good trades in the morning and then proceed to give profits back or, not trade at all for fear of giving profits back. Today I barely traded in the afternoon.

My best stock today was ACI and man... it could have been so much better. However, there were some disgusting chop moves in it early and I just couldn't hang in there.

I got short near the top of that second green bar on the day. I sold more when it broke through the figure and then covered some near $48.50. However, then the stock went lower and spiked a straight point in the next 10 minutes. I still had half of my position stopped up at $49.15 and I was stopped out. It only went up to $49.23 before turning tail and heading back down.

That kind of killed my momentum.

I was a little bummed out because I tried to hold a "winner" and I just got chopped out. Looking back on the graph now, I was in the stock when it was all wild. Had I continued to concentrate on it, I could have found a very nice smooth short entry at around 1:30. Unfortunately at that time, I was thinking defensively, not aggressively.

Anyone have any good advice on how to "keep your edge" through the trading day? Momojuicing (RIP) used to watch just a few stocks all day... how do you do it man? I guess I lose focus pretty easily... I start listening to the idiots on CNBC and I want to write mean posts about the stupid shit they say.

Maybe my blog is killing my focus. Scalper, you out there? How is life post blogging? Are you doing better now or what? Drop a line!

Anyway, I also tried to force myself to use more limit orders again today. Yesterday I got into the bad habit of throwing market orders around. They just don't work in the hybrid market. You get awful fills...

So, more of the same. I was up late last night watching the Super Tuesday results so I'm pretty shot. Tonight I plan on getting more sleep, waking up earlier, and trying to come up with some type of "plan" for tomorrow's trade. By "plan" I mean, identifying longs if the market is strong, shorts if it's weak, and other plays for if it's really choppy. If any of you have any interesting pre-open "plan" ideas, let me know... like, how you strategize for the day? I have the research thing all sussed out, but I need to work on implementing that research into action.

Here's the stats:
P&L, $606
Best, ACI, $199
Worst, WFR, -$73

14,200 shares traded.
17 stocks traded. 11 winners, 6 losers.


Sanglucci said...

I use all market orders DT... believe it or not... cause I'm watchin that tape so damn closely when I want in I'm in no questions... If it's trading some crazy ass shit that goes into slow mode then I'll just limit through and take whateva's there but yeo everythin I do all market orders but another part of the reason I do is the fees my company charges it's cheap as shit for market orders so I got used to using those if I'm taking liquidity... Maybe I'm crazy man but if a move is happening I want in I don't wait for pullbacks none of that shit obviously I try to avoid getting in at the tops of moves or bottoms but u kno what I mean...

Masterjaz Out said...

If you don't mind using some periods (you are the King of Run-on sentences)...a question for both DT and Sang...I am going to start trading with a prop firm and am working with adding/removing liquidity. Sang, given your use of market orders, I am assuming you don't pay the 0.002 to 0.003/shr ECN fee? ala a ticket or all-in per share charge? or do you just trade listed NYSE names? Please let me know how it works for you. I've been using limit (adding liquidity) for my first target and partial out ,then use markets from there. Usually zero out with ECN fees if all goes well. Just trying to get insight into others fees, order routing, etc.


Sanglucci said...

oooooh shit masterjaz gonna come up in here and talk shit huh???? HA listen man you got it down buddy I trade most NYSE names but if you're adding liquidity 25 percent of the time you'll pay no ECN fees most of the time you'll even save money...Now as for me the routing strategy I used is Island DOTD and going market with that method if it routes you to NY you pay almost nothin but if it routes you to ECN's you get banged on which is why you need add liquidity a good amount of the time... Me personally I stopped giving a fuck about adding liquidity if I'm making money I'm making money one of these days I'll try to incorporate it into my trading but for now it's all good. But you have the right strategy just make sure you ain't missin trades by focusin on adding liquidity all the damn time

swift_trader said...

In NYSE i am using RASH DOTD to remove liquidity and add with island. if i really want to get filled or get out i also add with RASH DOTD. but in general i dont give a f*ck about the fees because in the end their effect is very little on my trading (the trend trading). if i'm gonna make a 200$ trade i wouldnt care about 2$ or receiving 2$. although for my scalping method i always add liquidity. in some days where i am just scalping the whole time i finish negative 200-300$ in gross and positive 500-600$ in net.

Dinosaur Trader said...


Those two ^^ have it much more thought out that I do... I'm pissed about the extra fees, but recognize that it's not what is making or breaking most of my days.

Swifty... what you're saying is that you scalp so much and add enough liquidity that you're making hundreds of dollars a day from it? That sounds kind of crazy...

Meanwhile, how can you tell if you're "adding" or "subtracting" liquidity? If I throw a limit order out and it gets hit, did I add or subtract?

I'll go check your blog out.


Sanglucci said...

Damn DT u for real???? What a herb... Yea man if I added liquidity all the time and traded 50K shares a day and churned away all day I'd end up positive on the day from SAVING money by adding... Now as for your herbish comment about adding and subtracting... let's say you wanna get short bids at 45 aite you limit through the bid so your limit is like 40 you're jus gonna TAKE the best price so you're "subtracting" liquidity as you so herbishly put it... If the bids at 45 and you tryna get short u throw a limit at 50 and get picked off you've now added liquidity and you get an ECN break for it.... DT you gotta get wit it

Dinosaur Trader said...


For chrissake man, take a look at the name of my blog... Dinosaur Trader. When I started trading, shit was quoted in sixteenths and it would sometimes take A MINUTE to get your order filled. Things have changed so fast this last year that my head still hasn't stopped spinning.

So I guess I'm an "herb."

Anyway, thanks for "clarifying" things, in your way...


swift_trader said...


On 10,000 shares i make 22$ of fees :). With my scalping strategy i've had days in which i trade well over half a million...95% adding liquidity. u can do the math :)

Masterjaz Out said...

Thanks for the comments guys. Some background that will help explain why I am so concerned. Currently I am daytrading in a cash IRA, so I am limited by PDT and settlement issues. Being small time (i.e. less than 500 shares) fees are huge. I am running 58% winners with a 4.51 profit factor (less commish) or 1.98 (with commish). As you can see, I am getting smoked with commish hence the reason for going prop. Currently 0.01/shr all in. Nonetheless, even with decent leverage, I think fees would still be an issue. Saw Sang trades near 0.5M shares in Jan, so it makes sense he is not worried about fees. My guess is I'll be trading 1/10 of that, so fees add up quick.

Keep doing what's working and mayble I'll have to join this little office if and when I'm trading some decent volume.