Friday, September 12, 2008

The Democrats Are Spineless

I've voted for third party candidates before and I may be forced to do it yet again.

It has been easy to hate on the Republicans these last eight years since they are led by Bush and Cheney and they basically ruined our country. The Democrats though are a little more subtle. They're kind of like the guy who appears to be your friend, but then tries to sleep with your girlfriend whenever you're not around.

Expand offshore drilling to lower to price of gasoline? Really? Have they taken a peek at the price of oil in the last few weeks? Did we start fucking up ANWAR and the sandy Hamptons in order to create this drop? No.

They "reluctantly" gave in? Who the fuck cares if they gave in "reluctantly," they gave in and that's all that matters. They gave in to a party that should be in tatters and without any kind of influence for all the shit that has happened under their watch.


Jorge said...

Dems have been kinda wussy since Palin was tapped. They need to grow a backbone already. Same reason we lost in '00 and '04. Imagine if that Family Guy episode where Al Gore was president actually happened... sigh..

Tyro said...

I agree the Dems need to stop being pussies and step up. McCain is not an "honest" man and Palin is not "feisty", they're both dishonest, opportunistic liars and Obama/Biden need to stop acting like 'Good Guys' and say it.

But you're wrong about drilling. Let's face it, offshore drilling is going to happen. It's inevitable. There's no way that any government can resist, if not today then when gas hits $6/gallon, $8 or $10. Right now they have an opportunity to give this to the Republicans in exchange for some other energy concessions.

They could have negotiated better but they did what they should.

Wake up dude, stop acting like a baby screaming "it's not fair". It was the GOP that acts like drilling will make a difference and you shriek like the Dems buy in as well. Sheesh.

Dinosaur Trader said...


I understood everything until the end of your comment. I'm not acting like a baby, I just don't support offshore drilling. I don't think it will help. And I'm pissed because I thought the Dems were on my side of the issue, instead, they caved, like they tend to do.


Tyro said...


Doing the inevitable isn't caving, it's accepting reality and profiting from it. Agreeing to offshore drilling at a time when the GOP is freaking out about it means they have the opportunity to extract concessions and get some things that they want in exchange for something that means next to nothing (because it will happen anyway).

I totally agree that it will do nothing. The last time drilling was expanded in the US oil prices rose. The GOP are being totally ridiculous about it, but when an opponent is acting irrationally it is often a good time to jump which the Dems have done. They could have gotten more which is a shame, but I can't fault them for acting.

If the Dems didn't agree to offshore drilling today, do you think this would end the issue? Oil is headed down now but what about in 2 years? What about when oil is at $6/gallon, what will the public pressure for drilling be like then? $8? We both agree that it's silly and irrational, but when people are paying hundreds of dollars a month in gas, they want to do something, even if we both know it won't help.

I don't see what's so shocking here or why you're acting so upset. It was a smart thing they've done. Would you really rather they oppose this on principle? Just what would that accomplish and for how long?

Tyro said...

BTW, sorry 'bout the 'baby' comment. I was trying to be all posturing & trader-y & shit but I'm not very good at it. Probably best to not pose at all and leave it to guys who know how to do it properly :)

Dinosaur Trader said...

No, I've been called worse, I was just trying to figure out what you disagreed with me about.

I guess that yeah, I would like a politician, ANY politician or political party (besides Ron Paul) to stand up for something based upon principle.

I guess I don't believe that offshore drilling is inevitable. I think that if we could elevate the level of debate in this country that things could be different.

And yeah, I guess I'm also not being realistic... because just looking at the level of debate in the current presidential election it looks like we're headed straight down.


Tyro said...

I know, I find politics unbearably depressing at times. I'm really rooting for Obama 'cause he's intelligent, diplomatic, astute and has demonstrated his ability to see through to the heart of the matter and speak the truth instead of spewing sound bites. He's a politician and is bound to disappoint, but he's the best the US has seen in a long while. But he needs to change his game plan for the next couple months if he wants to stand up to opponents who don't know how to speak without lying.

For a start, he should stop treating them with respect and offering them faint praise - call them the names they deserve!

WRT Ron Paul - he's a real wackaloon on many issues but as with other US presedential hopeless cases he can speak without fear of accountability or repercussions. Principled stands have no consequences. I wish more people like him would be permitted in the debates if only to push the real candidates harder.

Meanwhile it looks like Canada's got an election coming up soon and I've got to decide which of the four parties in my area deserve my tepid support :)

jsp9999 said...

As much as I have been excited about Obama's course over the time, I also realized America is split dead even on everything right now. So it's extremely difficult Obama to reach the right as is McCain to the left. I did not like or understand the way Obama moved so quickly to the center after the primary but I realized slowly he was quick to see that he has no shot of winning unless he moves to the issues that matter to the right. Hence, the interviews with O'reilly, meeting with Murdoch, offshore drilling, easing off levying tax on riches(this never ever worked in the history and it will not either, but good political rhetoric point), backing off a definitive withdrawl time in Iraq, etc.

It appears white evangelicals still exert the most political force in U.S. as they were successful of penetrating McCain to choose Palin. And the pick was brilliant IMO because she as a tool serves 3 major swing blocks; women who are mostly emotional in their decisions, evangelicals who are not the followers of Jesus but rather political forceful's, and finally every non-talented American Idol watchers who dream day and night they could be the fairy tale themselves. None of the swing blocks will watch the interviews nor read records of her but rather fixate their vote on the same gender, the same evangelical, and the same pretty cowgirl look. It's sad but seasoned politicians know it works as Hillary did during the primary.

By the way, if you watched her interview with Gibson and you think she is not BSing, you are a moron. It reminds me of this video back in June.

Paracelsus said...


Unfortunately, this is nothing new. Every four years - on election year - the Democrats kowtow to the Republican party. The result: a defeat on election night. Glenn Greenwald of wrote this interesting article about it:

Bluedog said...

Politics is politics, and I haven't done much research on this but if the benefit of drilling offshore exceeds the environmental risks involved, I say go for it. Staying entrenched in a position for "principle" makes no sense to me.


Denarii said...

Come on guys - do you guys read at all? if you look at how the bill is written it is not bill to allow drilling.

If that becomes law then the Democrates have won. It is a we are in favor of drilling but not really.

The only state that could sign on to the drilling is Fla and guess what the Democrates know that and have added a provision so the main parts of Fla (by the way where we allready know where Oil and Nat Gas is and where we could have it to market within 18 to 24 months) cant not drill until after 2022.

This is the perfect anti-drilling bill - it fools the public in thinking the Democrates might care about energy pieces while making sure the Oil companies tax breaks are removed and there is a snowballs chance in hell the states would let the oil companies and top of the money the oil companies would have to waste to be allowed to drill.

You guys are sad - really sad.

Read about what you thinking you are talking about before you try speaking about it. Please.

Lets just let Boone Pickens do his thing and have a compromise we can all live with.

Dinosaur Trader said...


Oh, look who reads all the bills going through Congress suddenly...


Anyway, look. I haven't read it yet, but given your track record, I'll just assume you're misinformed for now. It's worked for me in the past.


Denarii said...

and which track record are we talking about?

Next thing you are going to tell me in that the surge did not work or that Reagan polices extended the cold war - lol

Dinosaur Trader said...

Your track record on the political posts where most often, you say something I heard from some right-wing talking head.

Problem is, they're often misinformed, and just spinning.

Take Palin's "interview" the other day. So happy they finally let her talk to a "journalist..." even if it was a very friendly one... because you can clearly see, she has nothing but talking points. Meanwhile her other "interviews" with Kudlow and Glenn (ROTFLMAO) Beck, don't count, because they're not even close to being journalists, just propagandaists. Hopefully, watching Kudlow on CNBC, you at least realize that.

If you don''t take the right wing media without a HUGE grain of salt, then basically, the debate stops there, because you're simply misinformed... and it's nothing personal, it's just their JOB to misinform people, and they do it, unfortunately, very well.

I'm glad someone though, has enjoyed the policies of the last 8 years.

Off to a wedding.


Complacent Panda said...

When she isn't reading a speech, she doesn't sound all that great--even unintelligent.

Watch the interview with Gibson.

OONR7 said...

dt: I've been against off-shore drilling as well but sometimes you have to give a little to get a lot. It's compromise.. a term the Republicans have never heard of. People will realize that off-shore drilling is not the answer when they notice the price off gas is not dropping 2, 4, 6 years from now (which should be when the first drop of oil from the new off-shore drilling will be realized).

OONR7 said...

keep the faith... 3rd party's not the answer right now. The answer is making sure McCain does not get elected. Honestly, maybe my grandkids will see a legitimate 3rd party in the country... that's how far away we are from it. As witnessed from Bush's re-election 4 years ago and the fact that Obama's running so close in the polls with a Bush clone - we're not open to a 3rd choice. If we were... it would only benefit the Republicans as most 3rd party voters would be frustrated Dems.

Tyro said...

Somewhat related (author Joe Romm runs a great blog covering oil drilling) on the Dems. Hopefully this is intent and will continue:

Dinosaur Trader said...


I couldn't get that link up... looks like it got chopped off there.


Tyro said...

Sorry DT, does this work any better?

BTW: congrats on a stellar day yesterday.